Advice about eating without carbs? (I swear I'm not dieting!)

[dancingsinging]

So I'm starting this medication which will cause pretty bad gastric distress if I eat carbs. (I took it before and boy did it.) This is cramping my fat activism style/endangering my precarious "I love my body and don't freak out about food" balance and it also presenting some logistical problems. If any of you have advice, I'd love to hear it.

About the not freaking out about food--have any of you ever managed to cut out a whole swath of food you like without setting up a nasty deprivation/temptation/binging cycle? If so, how did you do it? (I managed to go about five years during my adolescence and teens without letting fat or concentrated protein pass my lips except on weekends by focusing on all the things I could eat, but that whole lying to myself ("I love brown rice!" was ultimately rather self-harming and also I can't give myself weekends off this time.)

About the logistics--I have no idea what the fuck I'm going to eat! Like, cobb salads and chunks of meat with veggies are working for now, but I bet that's going to get old fast. Also, I have this weird experience where I eat a bunch of food and then am full and hungry at the same time. I'm going to have to experiment to see whether I can tolerate a moderate amount of whole grains or legumes eaten in conjunction with protein and fat (the gastric thing is related to the glycemic load) which will probably help a lot if I can do it. But I'm wondering if any of you have experience with something like a strict Atkins diet and can provide some practical advice for pulling it off without feeling all meated out and gross? I know I could probably google up some Atkins forums or whatever, but I really don't want to expose myself to a lot of fat-hating dieters, you know?

About the loving my body--I am a little worried that I will lose a little weight as a side effect and then get tracked into thoughts like "OMG, I will be so hot if I keep this up and then totally I could go bikini shopping next year and everyone will be so nice to me when I'm skinny!" It's just so fucking internalized and so easily triggered and I hate it because ultimately it makes me feel awful and actually ends up de-motivating me to continue the behaviors. But I don't know how to avoid it. I mean, I am amazingly good at lying to myself and being some gestapo-bitch to myself with the "that thought is wrong and you will be punished" stuff. But that doesn't so much serve me. Anyone got alternatives?

About the fat activism--l really love how good I feel when I wander around the water slide park in my jiggly, round-tummied self looking and feeling happy and like "this is what a human body looks like, people!" I love publically chobbling down on a big ol' mess of french fries that I'm totally digging. It's like, genuine, authentic actions are so much more powerful than words. And I'm bummed to let go of that. Thoughts?

If any of you have help or suggestions or even encouragement and understanding, I would so love to hear that.

Comments

[wordweaverlynn]

Yargh, that sounds like a nightmare. Sending encouragement and cheddar cheese.

[vito_excalibur]

I have this weird experience where I eat a bunch of food and then am full and hungry at the same time.

Oh man, when I was doing Atkins I got that exact same thing! It was like, I can eat ALL THE EGGS with butter and cheese or whatever but too bad, until I eat a piece of toast I'm not gonna be fully satisfied, it sucks.

Mr. E's been doing no-carb since like forever. When we finally get to talk on the phone, which we WILL goddammit, I will try to put him on a bit so he can share tips.

From way back in the day, I actually remember the Atkins book having some surprisingly good veggie recipes! Things like sauteed kale and such. You could also maybe try to find some paleo forums?

IDK, my only real tool for not going into weird body-hate mode is to try to focus on how my body feels from the inside rather than how it looks from the outside. This is not so hot if it's not feeling great, but, y'know, you can try to focus on small improvements. Working out helps a lot; it feels good to be able to carry things. Man, right now I'm so out of it. I walked like 12 blocks today doing errands and I had to stop and rest. :( I know that recovery is slow but that still sucks!

[dancingsinging]

I'm glad you got to walk! Glad also that you were like, listening to your body and not some mental idea of what you /should/ be able to do, and that you rested.

I do still want to talk to you!! But I don't want to harass you with a bunch of calls. If you ever have 5 minutes, call me and I'll try to drop everything. Then, if you need to, you can just, like, hang up midsentence. I swear I get it. :)

I'd love to talk to the E-man, if he's up for sharing tips!

[sonia]

Hi, dropping by via the network and offering sympathy for having to radically change your diet and the issues that brings up. (Also as a dancer and a singer I love your username!)

I discovered a while back that I'm extremely sensitive to wheat gluten, and I haven't reacted that well to rice or quinoa either, so I've been eating mostly lamb & veggie stir-fry, and chocolate-coconut Larabars. (There are many other flavors of Larabars, but that's the only one that currently works for me).

It's relatively easy for me to live with the restrictions because I feel so horrible when I don't. I do give myself the free choice - if I see something I really want that might be gluten-contaminated, I have the option of eating it and toughing out the reaction. You could think about giving yourself that option too.

As for weight-loss, I've gained a few pounds lately, much to my puzzlement and to the detriment of my clothes fitting. I am striving not to beat myself up nor diet, etc. Whether I lose weight or gain weight, I focus on enjoying the body I have right now, and wryly note any yay! or oh no! reactions without taking them too seriously.

Good luck with the changes!

<3 This got... kinda long?

[epershand]

Oh man, I so, so, so sympathize with the emotional side of this post. I've become obsessive about controlling what food I eat, and even though my focus is almost always on the "how much energy will I have after this meal and how long?" side, thinking about it regularly is weird. And I get into focused conversations, with like, paleo people, and we have THINGS TO SAY TO EACH OTHER and it is kind of upsetting. (And years ago, when I wasn't eating regularly because of anxiety, people kept telling me all the time how I was losing weight and clearly it was awesome that I was being healthier, and I was furious at them... but also kind of vain and pleased about the whole thing, ugh.)

I don't have any advice about carbs in particular, but the single thing of the most truth that I've ever read, dietarily speaking, was the Fat Nutritionist's Food You Like Is Food That Feels Good. The attitude in that post is basically how I make all my food choices.

So, for instance, I've figured out that while empty carbs are tasty and fill me up, I get hungry faster and have lower energy for the rest of the day after I come down from the glycemic crash. So I try to have them only as meal decoration, with a the meals focused on something like yogurt, eggs, or legumes instead, because I feel better after.

I vaguely wanted to become a vegetarian for a long time, but I didn't actually become one until I went to college and it turned out that dorm meat and my digestive system did *not* get along well. After a very short time, it didn't feel like I was "giving up" meat, it just felt like I was freeing myself of that awful substance that was giving me stomache aches. Similarly, the fruit that I'm allergic to *does* taste really good... but since even thinking about it gives me sympathy itches, I've gotten very good at avoiding it, or of sometimes making the call "ok, today I'm going to trade a few hours of yuck for a few minutes of pleasure, because it's rare enough that it's worth it."

Based on my own experiences, and experiences of friends with celiac, I'm willing to guess that before too long, carbs are going to taste like gastric distress to you just as much as orange juice tastes like hives to me and the good feelings you get from being free of them will feel better than the good feelings you get from tasting them.

But, from the not-eating-meat side of things, here are some foods that are awesome and less intense with the carbs: yogurt (particularly greek yogurt, omg, it is like a magical energy powerhouse). Eggs. Peanuts in all their forms--whole, crushed, butter, etc. (although they're legumes so might cause you issues). Bananas. (My standard mid-afternoon snack alternates between banana + yogurt + peanut butter + honey, and yogurt + nuts + honey.) Can you do brown rice/wild rice/grains where there's enough protein and fiber to cut the OMG SUGAR RUSH of the grain itself?

One way to get to good webpages about cutting cabs without the dealing with Dieting Worldview might actually be to hit the celiac angle, because there are so many different grain sensitivities that it does wind up being possible to put together entirely-carb-free meals. My old roommate yarngeek has celiac and an incredibly curated "food" tag on delicious. For a more energy-focused view, I found this post of rydra_wong's and its comments invaluable.

Re: <3 This got... kinda long?

[dancingsinging]

Thanks for links and tips! I love the Fat Nutritionist, too. Her blog has helped me, like, radically change how I deal with food. :)

Re: <3 This got... kinda long?

[rydra_wong]

particularly greek yogurt, omg, it is like a magical energy powerhouse

This. Greek yoghurt is wonderful, if you're okay with dairy. Double the protein of regular yoghurt (which is handy if you're looking for protein sources that aren't All Meat, All The Time!!!), and really luscious, especially if you add nuts (e.g. flaked almonds) and berries and maybe a bit of honey if your system can handle it.

In my experience, it's hard to feel deprived while eating Greek yoghurt.

[amberdine]

Nuts -- all different kinds -- and tofu are great, too. All kinds of cheeses. Avocados. Omelets. Tuna salad on cucumber slices. Sashimi. Thai lettuce wraps. Most Chinese stir-fry if you leave out the rice. There are a bunch of good low-carb wrap-style breads which make for nice sandwich-type meals.

Be sure to add lots of fat to every meal, as cheese or mayo or nuts or salad dressing or whatever. Eating a high percentage of protein is what will mainly cause weight loss, and it feels really crummy, too. High fat is actually pretty harmless, as it turns out, so long as the fat is not highly processed. And drink lots of water, but you probably knew that already. :)

I don't know what to say about the mental component. Maybe just remind yourself you're doing this for your health, and what happens, happens?

[wild_irises]

I don't have any practical suggestions right now, but I do have encouragement and understanding in bushels. I think one thing I would do is make a list of all the sources of protein and think about how to have them take turns (but I love meat, so that part wouldn't be hard for me). Also what crunches? What has the mouthfeel of the things I'm missing?

How long are you going to be on this med?

[dancingsinging]

Re mouthfeel--do you have any idea where I can get that texture of a soft cookie? You know how it's like a little crispy at the edge and like resists being chewed just enough? It is driving me crazy!

I think I'll be taking this med for at least a year or so. :(

[jesse_the_k]

Damn, I bet that we could come up with something working with whole nuts, diced nuts, and dried fruit — are those in the possible list? There's a GF treat called "Bumble Bars" or more prosaically, "Sesame Peanut Butter Coconut Chews" cause that's what is in 'em. They're baked in a very slow oven, and the edges have that wonderful "I'm a cookie!" quality, and the center is chewey like a good brownie. The down side is one must use honey or they fall apart (I spent a very aromatic two days trying substitutes to no avail.) I've got the recipe if you're interested.

[dancingsinging]

It sounds delicious, but I don't think I'd do well with the honey. You tried agave? Nuts are great, and dried fruit I can do a little of.

[rydra_wong]

As an FYI, agave is possibly kind of problematic because it's essentially heavily-processed High Fructose Cactus Syrup.

The fructose makes it low-GI, but there are concerns about how the liver reacts to fructose if you dump a huge quantity of it into your system at once (without the buffering effects of the fibre in fruit).

Which sucks, because it's quite nice.

[meganbmoore]

My father's been on and off low carbs for years. If you can still have small amounts of carbs, low carb pasta is actually pretty decent. Not as good as the normal stuff, but if you're having it with something well seasoned and they're mixed together. He also likes these wraps that have prctically no carbs, but I don't like them.

As far as meats anmd vegatables go, there actually are a lot of no/low carb recipes for stirfrying, depending on how much you like seasonings and sauces.

[jesse_the_k]

In terms of loving the diet, I brainstormed for things I really enjoyed eating. Then I set up my menus (yeah, uck, but it's the best way to learn) so that I had one good thing a day. You live in an area with access to fresh fish, and the more of it you can stand the better. I found that a given calorie of protein was much more fulfilling than a given calorie of carb. I now eat a breakfast of champions which really does satisfy me.*

Been living the celiac (GF or gluten free) life for five years, and I heartily agree with epershand's tack. Deleting wheat, rye and barley from a person's diet means farewell to many many carbs. One of my docs, in fact, thinks that the enthusiasm with which folks embraced the Atkins Diet was because its GF nature helped a lot of undiagnosed celiacs to experience life without autoimmunity. I can't speak for strict Atkins, because (as you'll see) I'm all about loving the vegetables.

I approached the carb/GF substitution question structurally:

am I looking for something like a sandwich? There are sturdy vegetables (esp daikon, cucumber, very fresh zucchini) that work for open-faced sandwiching. Flexible leaves can wrap up something to eat one-handed — raw romaine lettuce is particularly good, as well as traditional cooked wrappers like grape or banana leaves, and newer steamed/nuked wrappers like lacinato kale or chard.

am I looking for a sauce-catcher? Lightly steamed eggplant makes a great base for marinara or stir fries. Other possibilities are multiple steamed small things, such as lima or green beans, sugar snaps or snow peas.

am I wanting to dip? I use cucumbers year round! (remove the seeds if they're old, slice in rounds); any vegetable with some structure: carrots, broccoli/cauliflower

A word of warning: substitute foods aimed at celiacs can have many more carbs than their originals. To attain the sticky-stretchy magic of wheat gluten, manufacturers substitute a lot of starches, without any protein. So you still got to read the labels.

The body issue thing is really complicated. I have lots of data: from obsessed counting-every-nutrient to almost free eating; three entire wardrobes (and I thought that would be fun); from true self-love to anxious self-loathing. But answers? That might be a cool DW community: restricted diet and body image.

[sonia]

I would join your proposed DW community!

[dancingsinging]

OMG, I totally wish I had the bandwidth to start that DW community! That's a brilliant idea.

Thanks for the suggestions, too!

[jesse_the_k]

You're most welcome, and we don't need to start a community to start a discussion :,) If we talk about it amongst ourselves, word might get out and somebody energetic could wrangle the community.

*waves hi*

[rydra_wong]

Logistics-wise:

About the logistics--I have no idea what the fuck I'm going to eat! Like, cobb salads and chunks of meat with veggies are working for now, but I bet that's going to get old fast.

For me, on a practical level, it helped to make a list of protein sources that I like, then brainstorm ways of combining them with non-starchy vegetables or fruit. It's going to feel less like it has to be steak at every meal if you've got a mental list that goes something like: fish, meat, offal, eggs, cheese, yoghurt, tofu, beans (if you're okay with them), etc. to start off with.

If glycemic load is the critical factor, you should find you can eat quite a lot of "carbs" too (scare quotes because obviously fruit and veg are carbs as well), but it helps to get out of the automatic habit of building meals on top of them. And then you're more focused on what you want to eat, not what you want to limit.

I'm shitty at planning meals when I'm shopping, so it helps to be able to look in my fridge and think: I have a bag of spinach which is about to go wilted and horrible if I don't do something with it. I always have eggs, so -- spinach omelette! And yay, here's some parmesan to add too.

[rydra_wong]

On the mental side -- this is obviously extremely YMMV, but I have a personal rule that I'm never allowed to feel guilty about food.

I can regret it -- for example, if I (say) ate nothing but popcorn for lunch, I could notice that an hour later, I felt like shit, consider that probably these things were causally connected, wish I'd eaten something with more protein and fat instead, and resolve to bear this in mind in future.

But I'm not allowed to think of myself or the food as bad, or think that I've somehow sinned or been weak-willed by eating the "wrong" foods (and if I catch myself veering in that direction, it's a sign that I'm being obsessive in unhelpful ways and need to go reread some things by the Fat Nutritionist and remind myself that food has no moral value).

It's about positive hedonism, really: I don't want to eat foods that I know will make me feel sick, because I don't like feeling sick and it doesn't contribute to enjoyment of my food or my life.

Lately, I've found I'm even ditching the regret a lot of the time: if I ate popcorn for lunch, it must have seemed like a good idea at the time, maybe because I desperately needed fuel and there wasn't anything else available to buy, or because I really really wanted popcorn and thought it'd be worth the crash. And if it's the former, I'll make a mental note to stick a packet of almonds and other snacks in my bag so I don't get caught out like that in future, but otherwise not waste mental energy kicking myself about it.

It's not about "failure" or "lapsing" -- it's all data, about how my body responds to things and how various adaptations do or don't fit into my life.

ETA: Sorry for spamming your post, but as you can see, this is something I've had to think about a bit. *g*

[dancingsinging]

Thanks for spamming my post! It's exactly the kind of info and perspective I was looking for. :D